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Патч 5.4: Ghostcrawler о гибких рейдах

WoW MoP Патч Ghostcrawler гибкие рейды

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#1 Gecko


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Отправлено 10 Июнь 2013 - 10:42

Как и Bashiok с Taepsilum, Ghostcrawler провел выходные, отвечая на вопросы пользователей о гибких рейдах. На этот раз площадкой для спонтанной конференции послужил личный твиттер Грега Стрита.


Т.к. большинство вопросов повторяются или затрагивают схожие проблемы, то предлагаем вам краткую выдержку основных мыслей Ghostcrawler на счет гибких рейдов:
  • Система гибких рейдов для старых рейдовых подземелий, возможно, будет добавлена в будущем, но в патче 5.4 она будет распространяться только на новый рейд.
  • Система поиска рейдов спроектирована таким образом, что подземелье в этом режиме можно зачистить за один вечер. Гибкие рейды гораздо ближе по своей к сути к нормалам, где вы постепенно осваиваете боссов.
  • Общее сохранение гибких рейдов с LFR или нормальным режимом не рассматривается, т.к. это ограничение наказывало бы людей, которые сбегали в LFR или нормал, но потом еще захотели сходить в гибкие рейды с друзьями.
  • Скалирование боссов в нормальных и героических рейдах было бы весьма трудной задачей, т.к. некоторые сражения гораздо проще для группы одного размера, но сложнее для другой (с отличным от первой количественным составом).
  • Возможность использования обычной системы распределения добычи, вместо оной из поиска рейда, может быть добавлена в будущих патчах, но не в 5.4.
  • Есть вероятность того, что гибкие рейды будут скалироваться и для групп менее чем из 10 человек, но никто этого не обещает.
Ниже вы можете найти весь список вопросов Грегу Стриту, его ответы на них и ссылки на конкретные твиты.

Hey! flexible raids - people may say it's a disappointment , but for me it's a great news, congratulations on the new feature!

"I am not the audience for this feature, therefore it sucks," is a very old argument. It happens. (Source)

I don't know Morello, but I agree with a lot of what he says.

In Vanilla and BC, just leveling, making alts, profs etc. were entertaining enough for a lot of players. A very few raided. (Source)

In LK, largely from Naxx 25, many players discovered raiding, and it was fun for them. (Source)

In Cat, we made 10s harder so that 10 and 25 could deliver the same ilevel. But this pushed some out of raiding. (Source)

We offered LFR to provide raiding back to those players. It worked reasonably well. But it doesn't quite feel like raiding. (Source)

Our hope is that Flex mode does feel like raiding. (Source)

New Flex raids, what about boss mechanics? Low sense of accomplishment in LFR, they feel oversimplified or easily ignored.

LFR is designed with the intent that you will finish in one night. We want Flex to be more traditional raiding. (Source)

By which I mean that you might only get one new boss a week or so (assuming you're the target audience). (Source)

Will Flex Raiding be something we can use for Throne of Thunder?

No, at least not initially. It wasn't designed with that in mind, but retrofitting isn't totally out of the question. (Source)

lots of noise to see signal. Will Flex be an option for T14 and T15? Or T16 only?

Only the new 5.4 raid initially. We may add other raids over time, but it's not a simple change to convert. (Source)

how will flex raids handle healer ratios? is 15man with 1 healer going to be as viable as 10man with 3?

Bring as many healers as you think you need. I would get 2-3 if you have 10 total as a good start. Maybe 1 more for every 5 total. (Source)

I like the idea of flex raiding. Curious how will the number of battle res scale with group size?

We will probably just make it 3, as in the 25 raids. Maybe no limit. We haven't decided yet. (Source)

Can't the the normal difficulty be replaced by new the Flexible Raid? I didn't see the need for them to coexist...

They are just different audiences. Civilization and Halo support many difficulty levels. It's a common solution to difficulty. (Source)

In those games however I'm usually only playing one difficulty at a time. Do you expect people will do that?

I often play new game+ when I finish with a game. It just depends on the audience. (Source)

if you put in Flex raiding, disable LFR for 5.4 please, we don't need them both.

LFR serves a valuable purpose, but it's ideally a back up plan, not the only way you experience WoW. (Source)

You say 'backup plan', but LFR's presence has undermined so many aspects of the game. Teams, community, concept of journey.

So don't run it if you don't like it? For other players it gave them a chance to raid that didn't exist for them before. (Source)

There is this myth that most LFR raiders were former N raiders. By and large this is not true. Most of them were not prior raiders. (Source)

I have to disagree. I would rather do Flex raid than LFR, since I cannot commit to normal raids. Friends>strangers

We would rather you do Flex. We think you'll have more fun. But disabling LFR isn't the right motivation in our minds. (Source)

to me LFR is to see the content and lore. Normal modes are for challenges and gear

LFR is also good for alts or on weeks when you can't make your raid or when you're between guilds. (Source)

But I would submit that it's a lot more fun to joke around with your friends that with random strangers. (Source)

The seeing of the content is the real incentive to get people into raids. LFR accomplishes that at a far easier lvl

You can see the content on Youtube. Experiencing a challenge and getting loot are fun too. (Source)

thoughts on limiting lfr? Say 10/12 available bosses -> incentive to push normals, exclusivity for norm/hc.

Potentially. We all like exclusive content. You just can't let that come at the expense of content in general. (Source)

Now with FlexR getting implement, could you remove tier pieces from LFR? They should only be accessible in FlexR/N/H raids

We discussed that idea, but instead there will be items only available in F/N/H mode. (Source)

just tier or all items ?

We discussed limiting tier items but are more likely to limit some other kinds of items. (Source)

The concern is that LFR needs some rewards - we aren't trying to kill it or else we'd just disable it. (Source)

I know players complained about the game being hard, but the game was healthier back then. It was growing, it was exciting.

It was growing, but it's hard to point to raid difficulty as the reason why. (Source)

You could point to having fewer specs or no mass rez, but I don't think those are reasonable explanations. (Source)

Just because Y had characteristic X does not mean X caused Y. (Source)

But hopefully in your case, Flex will give you back some of what you're missing in LFR. (Source)

If you can see all the content without any effort, people opt for that. LFR is probably responsible for sub loss.

The fact is, WoW always lost lots of players. In the past, we tended to get as many or more new ones as we lost. Lately, less. (Source)

Also, an awful lot of players we lose never even make it to endgame content. (Source)

because your aiming your game at casual fans who join and leave. making same mistakes as nintendo

I don't know. Blizzard and Nintendo both seem to have models that work out pretty well for them.... (Source)

nintendo have had a massive sale flop of the WiiU, wouldn't say its worked out that well.

Sure, but overall their track record is great. I'm still a fan. (Source)

I feel like they want to offer a mainstream experience with a ton of depth. Sounds like an awesome philosophy. We use it too. (Source)

and yet the casual market put them out of the next-gen run. Microsoft announced the same with Xbox one - share prices dropped.

I'm an industry insider, and even I wouldn't predict who has lost or won the next gen game yet. (Source)

What is your plan for /flex raids in regards to past content and gear? How will it work with...let's say Firelands or Ulduar

Flex is only for the 5.4 raid initially. (Source)

Combining 10/25 lockouts so people didn't feel obligated to do both.. Now we'll have three lock outs? What changed your mind?

It's a lesser of two evils thing. We changed the ICC model, but in retrospect maybe that wasn't the right call. (Source)

In game design, there are rarely no brainers. Usually you are trading off pros vs cons. This is no exception. (Source)

Flex raid: why not a shared loot lockout with LfR, so people don't feel 'forced' to do 3 raid difficulties per week?

"Hey, GC can you join our flex raid?" "Oh, sorry dude, I ran LFR on Sunday." (Source)

Thats ridiculous. "Hey, GC can you join our Hc raid?" "Oh, sorry dude, I ran Normal on Sunday".

With a few exceptions, H in particular is designed for set rosters not grabbing random dudes. Flex is all about grabbing whoever. (Source)

Why not allow N/HC guilds to flex too so they can be sure they have a raid on raid day and don't need to bench backups

It would be almost impossible to balance N or H for a variable group of people. Flex mindset isn't about min-maxing. (Source)

With the Flex raids opening in wings, can you start with any wing? Attempt the last boss without having to kill the first?

Not sure yet. (Source)

Are you waiting to see how 5.4 flex raids go before deciding whether to give n/h some flex? Or have you already ruled out?

We can't realistically scale group size for N or H because there would be bosses much easier on one group size than another. (Source)

That risk exists for Flex too, but remember the target audience is raiders who don't min max things like group size. (Source)

H players in particular would probably do a lot of "need 12 for boss A and 22 for boss B." Think that is less likely in flex mode. (Source)

I'm afraid flex-raid will make it even less attractive to graduate to real raiding. What would be the incentive for normals?

Do they need an incentive? We have a lot of players (not millions, but a lot) still struggling on Horridon. Flex is for them. (Source)

flex raids are for us? Your teams made the mistake, not ours. Normals don't need to be horridon hard.

We think Normal is serving its audience. Why deny them that? We can rename it Elite if the name bothers you. (Source)

It's not serving its audience. You've said so yourself that many are stuck on horridon.

Some are stuck on Horridon (and those are the audience for Flex). The success rate for Horridon overall is good. (Source)

A better question would be in time do you see "'flex" raid just replacing normals?

No, we like normals. We have a huge and diverse audience. We want to provide fun challenges for as many folks as we can. (Source)

What are your teams thoughts on how this will effect normals, their numbers and recruitment?

We expect people still wiping on Horridon at 8 weeks will shift to Flex instead. But, we predict most of the shift from LFR. (Source)

Also if your intent is to remove valor gear because flex raid is available I would caution you people do not like RNG

Some people just don't like raiding (even flex). We want to provide pathways for them to advance too. (Source)

What kind of difficulty level are we looking are for Flexible Raids? LFR tank and spanks or nearer to Normal?

Closer to Normal. We don't want the expectation to be that you clear it immediately, but we do want you to make progress. (Source)

Flexible Raids: Any concerns of burn out with three tiers of the same content? Note: Awesome idea, excited about seeing it.

Just pick the difficulty / size that best suits your interests. We don't think it works out well when we try to play game nanny. (Source)

The concern is valid, but when we try to save players from themselves it often backfires as often as it works. (Source)

No offense, but this new 'flex-raid' doesn't help when your realm has difficulty gathering even ten players.

Agreed, but it isn't intended to fix that problem. (Though you can invite friends from other realms.) (Source)

LOVE Flexible RAID idea. Just, PLEASE, don't use LFR loot for it. Use Normal Loot, to share gear between players

We don't yet have a solution for scaling no. of drops. We don't want you to hesitate to bring dude 15 because it means less loot. (Source)

Flex will use Personal Loot to avoid PUG drama, is it possible to let raid lead pick to use real loot system if just friends?

Not for 5.4 but if there is demand, we can look into adding the more traditional raid loot systems. (Source)

We don't currently have a system that lets a boss drop more loot that scales with size other than personal loot. (Source)

The problem is the scaling size. We don't want any pressure to not invite someone for fear of less loot. (Source)

This came up on EU forums (a couple of other posters suggested the same); thoughts?

It's not an unsolvable problem by any stretch but it's not a trivially solvable problem so it will likely have to wait. (Source)

Flexible raiding ticks a number of boxes. However, what does a group size of 11 or 12 mean for PoH and group bound spells?

Probably another good reason to kill that functionality of PoH... but not for 5.4. (Source)

Ji-Kun mount drop on Normal and Heroic mode, as far as I know. What about the new "Flexi-Raid" mode?

In general we want Flex to reward more cool stuff than LFR, Normal more than that and Heroic more than that. (Ji-Kun himself !flex) (Source)

new raid system sounds redundant - non25s can queue LFR, waste dev-time, leads to further cutting down LFR ilvl to squeeze in

There are a non-trivial number of players in more casual 10 raiding guilds who don't want to raid with strangers. (Source)

With Flex raiding, have you considered removing faction restriction for instanced PvE via battlenet? Are there Tech hurdles?

Mostly design hurdles. We like red vs. blue. (Source)

really love the flexible raid plan! Wish it scaled down below 10. 8 players would be great.

We *might* let it go a little lower, just so a late player can join you in progress rather than being replaced. #nopromises (Source)

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